Questions From Readers

Here's a question for your Q & A section. Do you think it's possible to get two different canoes out of the same mold? Mad River Canoe does. After paddling a Dagger Caption last spring, I decided it was time to replace my 17 year old, Old Town Tripper for something a little "sportier" on the rivers. My brother has owned a Mad River Freedom for a couple of years and recommended it as a good combination whitewater and river tripping boat. I studied the Mad River catalog and liked the specifications on the boat 24" bow, 22" stern, 4" rocker and 16-ft length. Sounded perfect. To make a long story short, I bought a Freedom this fall. On the trip home with my new boat on top of my truck, I stopped for gas and was admiring my new boat. As I looked at it on top of the truck, I couldn't notice any discernable difference between bow & stern heights. In fact the stern looked higher to me. When I got home I set the canoe on the garage floor in a crude effort to measure the boat and compare it to published specifications. What do you know, 22" bow and 22" stern. I also measured from a straight edge laid along the keel line and came up with even less height, but equal at both ends. Calling Mad River, it turns out the Freedom is actually a Mad River Explorer hull with the seats moved towards the center and blocks of wood under the deck plates to shove out the sides for more "flare" in the ends. Interestingly enough, the Explorer is cataloged at 22" bow and stern heights, 15" depth and 2" of rocker. Moving the bow seat aft raises the bow to give the Freedom 2 more inches of "perceived" height but strangely it doesn't reduce the 22" stern or 15" depth measurements of the catalog Freedom and Explorer. I have no idea where the Freedom's additional 2" of rocker comes from.

Seems to me that the placement of the seats in the boat is a matter of trim, not hull design. Does this mean that my BWCA canoe with a sliding bow seat is now actually two or three different models depending on the seat location? I think that marketing the Freedom as a relatively new and unique model with different hull dimensions from the Explorer is downright deceptive. What do you think?

Rick Luck, Duluth, Mn

RLuck@Prodigy.net

Royalex Questions & Answer From The Paddler Net This Month

Question from: Ken E. Brown

I just returned from my annual BWCA trip. It is the third for my Old Town Roylex canoe – and does the bottom show it! Over the past three seasons, it's developed some good grooves & gouges. It's probably mostly cosmetic but I'd still like to take care of them. Any suggestions on how to take care of this? Is there a kit? Where do I get the stuff (I live in SE Minnesota near La Crosse, WI)? Ideas, suggestions, bits of wisdom welcomed.

Thanks again.

PS. This listserver is wonderful. It makes me feel much less isolated from, and much more a part of, the MCA!

Answer from: Albert A. Gustaveson, Northwest Canoe Co.

First you need to understand what the product is: Royalex, ABS and all its cousins are essentially the same thing – A composite of layers of plastic sheeting, with different properties, that have been drawn over a male mold or pressed into a female mold. The colored sheets are on the outside and do not expand when heated. The white sheets on the interior do expand when heated and are built up in different thicknesses, depending on their location in the hull – thicker on the bottom to provide stiffness, and thinner towards the gunwales to save weight. It's all the same material from the same manufacturer. The ABS in an Old Town Tripper is the same as in a Mad River Explorer, or Dagger Venture. The difference is in how it is put together, the layering, and the type of mold used (Old Town uses a female mold, Mad River uses a male mold). To fix the stuff we use a urethane epoxy that costs about $175 per gallon. Breaks are easier to repair than scratches. Nothing will adhere to the outside layers so you have to "vee" out the breaks and cover the resulting patch with kevlar or glass cloth and resin. Abrasion helps to make it stick and direct heat from a blow torch over the surface to be bonded also may help – applied very carefully, of course. The results are ugly! The patches generally hold, but they are never pretty. Superficial damage like you describe is not worth fixing. If you wear through stems we can apply bang plates of kevlar felt for about $60. Other than that, scrapes and scratches, unless they have been opened up to the interior layers, will not last very long no matter what you use on them. The bottom line is these boats are made to be used up and discarded. Make no mistake, they are great on rocky streams and will take loads of abuse, but sooner or later you are going to wear them out.

Letter from the MCA Website

I just saw your question and answer about Royalex canoe repair on your website. They are, indeed, difficult to fix. I have been using Royalex built canoes for many, many years and the problems that develop are due to the soft nature of both the vinyl covering and the Royalex material. While the material will stand amazing amounts of abuse, it is susceptible to cuts and continuous abrasion. For gouges or specific points where continuous abrasion wears through the vinyl covering, I find that a generous application of "Shoo-Goo" actually makes a fine repair. It is one of the few substances that I have found which will actually bond to the vinyl and the Royalex material underneath. I just fill in the gouges and cover the areas where the Royalex is exposed, and let it dry. During use, the Shoo-Goo wears down to a smooth hard patch. These patches have stayed in place through years of very hard use. In fact, now when I have a new canoe, I immediately apply Shoo-Goo to areas where I know there is significant abrasion going to occur. It is sort of multi-use bang plate material. It also seems to work on cross-link poly, and other types of plastic material. The dried Shoo-Goo is quite dark, and not the most aesthetically pleasing appearance, but it will protect the hull material. I'd be interested to hear if any other paddlers have used this method of repair.

What I really wanted to ask about is canoe-tripping information. I am planning a canoe trip in the western arctic on the Quoich River. This river originates near the head of Wagner Bay, at the northwest tip of Hudson Bay, and flows south to enter Chesterfield Inlet, east of Baker Lake. I would like to contact any of your members who may have paddled this river, or know anything about it. I'd greatly appreciate any information you could provide.

Thanks,

Doug McKown, Banff, Alberta, mckown@expertcanmore.net

Power Kayaking Q & A

The following was a letter received by Dale Eggert from Graydon Carlson, in response to his HUT! article regarding Minnesota boat counts. Graydon fails to mention how a motor attaches to the kayak. Folbot offers a 'motor crossbar', that mounts across the rear of the cockpit, includes a special seat back, and places the motor noise directly at your left ear. Canoe manufacturers, notably Mad River, also sell a side motor mount that clamps to the gunwales placing the noise about a foot below your left ear since you're sitting on a raised seat rather that sitting in the bottom of the boat as with a kayak. You'll probably want to stand on the right side of a motor kayker for him to hear you . . .Editor.

I read your column 'Boat Numbers in Minnesota' and noted you had a question about the 59 motorized kayaks on the list. I own one of the listed motorized kayaks and have been using a motor on my kayak since purchasing it in 1961. By the way, it was used when I purchased it and the man I bought it from had bought it used, So I don't know for sure how old it is.

Why a motor in a kayak? Well when you have your wife, three children and your picnic and/or your swimming gear on board, with your destination a mile or more up stream, it saves a long hard paddle. I started with a half horse Evenrude, but am now using a one and a half horse Johnson. I did have a sail rig for it, but am now using a parafoil kite for down wind assist. By now you may have figured out that I am not talking about the typical "sea" or "river running" kayak. My kayak is a Folbot, a folding kayak that is 17.5 feet long and a beam equal to a standard canoe. I believe that most of the 59 listed motorized kayaks will be either Folbots or Kleppers, though there are a number of other large volume kayak manufactures, both folding and rigid. These crafts are more like the European covered canoes but with the covered decks and pointed ends they are usually called kayaks. The double cockpit on the Folbot is ten feet long, not good for attempting to do the Eskimo roll!

Why would anyone buy such a craft? Folding because it is so easy to transport and store, and for the versatility. As I wrote above, two adults and three small children plus the motor and gear all fit with ease and do not even began to overload the Folbot. Also safety, with the partially covered deck and the low seating you are safe in very high waves, being almost impossible to tip.

With the double paddles I can paddle alone in both strong current and high winds that would be very difficult in a canoe (I also have a canoe). I usually use my Folbot solo for local touring, fishing, spearing rough fish, flying of radio controlled model aircraft, BWCA for both day trips and overnight trips.

Current folding kayaks are smaller and very expensive. Singles cost two to three thousand and doubles three to four thousand dollars. They do have a dedicated following and there is a bimonthly publication called "folding kayaker", published by Ralph Diaz, 212/724-5069, the cost is $28.00 per year. Email: rdiaz@ix.netcom.com, address: Folding Kayaker Inc. PO Box 0754 New York, NY 10024

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